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IMPORTANT SITE REMINDERS ARE LISTED AFTER THIS RANT (so please read all of it in order to find the rules >:3)
On this mega I shall take the opportunity to rant about one of my favorite things: the Webnovel UNJUST DEPTHS!
Do you love transgenders?
Do you love communism?
Do you love queer romance?
Do you love killing fascists in a giant fucking mech?
Would a plotline with all of these things happening in a underwater retro-futuristic gundam setting intrigue you?
Especially if its actually really well written with good characters, rich worldbuilding, and a marxist leninist transfem author?
All of the answers should be: YES I DO ~~or else I WILL BAN YOU~~
Since you obviously love all of those things then Unjust Depths is perfect for YOU yes YOU! It is DESTINY
The Imbrian Ocean is at a time of severe instability. The monarch of the vast Empire that spans its unjust depths (:3) is sick and nearing death, every territory of the ocean now vying to carve their own Destiny out of the chaos. From the Volk fascists 
, Zionists 
(they literally will not die why are they still here oh my god), The 'Anarchists' (social chauvanists) 
in Bosporus, and the monarchs 
of each vast noble domain, each vies for power and prestige no matter who they crush underfoot, but it would be a pretty depressing story without a bright light in the dark.
On the edge of the Empire sits the glorious Union! The (Soviet) Union 
is a socialist federation of three states (and one anarchist mountain 
)that were formerly slave colonies under the Imbrian Empire until they broke away in a fierce liberation war. They have spent the last 20 years since then building themselves up. Whether they be Human 
, Shimmi 
(Catgirls who usually follow a religion closely related to modern Islam), and Kattaran 
(a hybrid humanoid species with characteristics of sea life ranging from sharks to cuttlefish)building socialism side by side.
First lead under the revolutionary leader Dashka Kansal, then the Idealist Ahwalia who lead the country to near ruin in pursuit of building a utopia on pillars of sand, then under the scientific socialist 
leadership of the Grand Marshall of the Union, Bhavani Jayanskar (I love Jayanskar so much shes basically as if Stalin, Lenin, and Zhukov were rolled into the same person but was a black lesbian badass who wore the uniform REALLY WELL)(she aint the main character at all tho shes only in very few scenes i just love her so much). Under Jayanskar, the Union has been growing their economy to both eliminate hunger and give everyone a home 
, but also growing their military capabilities for the inevitable return of the Empire. The Union is alone, but with the people by its side nothing, not even Destiny, can snuff out true freedoms light. 
As war wages between the Empire and Republic (basically underwater USA) once more over the lands between them, the facade begins to finally crack...
And a border conflict between the Empire and Union escalate, and the dreaded reconquest begins.
Amidst this turmoil, lives our main characters (yes there are multiple and all of them are lovely). Each of whom I personally love dearly, and are very well characterized. Many are soldiers of the Union, some are scientists, some are divers (mech pilots), some are lost strands finding new meaning after joining this band of Brigands
All are Communists 
All serve the Union 
All would gladly give their lives to defending socialism 
but even they would have little inkling of the adventure set in store for them as the lands beneath the waves erupt in fire, fury, and revolt
Can these transgender badasses kick fascist ass?
Can they kiss? (oh my god please kiss ISTG THERE IS SO MUCH SHIPPING AHHHH ITS GLORIOUS)
FIND OUT HERE: https://unjustdepths.com/
please do or else I will pout incessantly
just try it pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase i need to talk to someone about it after Cromalin went AFK
(I miss her, she was a real one)
REALLY IMPORTANT RULES BELOW, MUST READ
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As a reminder, be sure to properly give content warnings and put sensitive subjects behind proper spoiler tags. It's for the mental health of not just your comrades, but yourself as well.
Here is a screenshot of where to find the spoiler button.
I hate this book the first three chapters are good but then it becomes trash
Also
I HATE MECHAS
I HATE MECHAS
and the one scene about the authors fantasies of violently murdering strawman anarchists... just eww
And now to why I hate mechas: They represent individualism.
A submarine, for example, or a tank, is piloted by multiple people. Collectivism. Together strong. A mecha being stronger than a submarine is Great Man Theory personified.
Oh did I mention that the villains have shitty cannon fodder mechas that can't do shit? It's power levels again. The important main character mechas can kill dozens of cannon fodder mechas, and they'll never get hit by cannon fodder mechas, only by the important main character ones of course.
yeah but have you considered that they're big cool robots
Droidekas are (ultra cool) robots
Mechas aren't even robots and they look super boring and inefficient
I liked the mechas in Avatar because they represent the inefficient and individualistic ideology of the yanks perfectly
still lame take
This is a better take
still shit but at least this has some albiet nonsensical reason to it
It does strike me as a little pithy to complain that the bads all have dogshit mechs when stuff like the Jagdkaiser or that new big Volker successor exist. Even disregarding GREAT MAN THEORY PERSONIFIED I think the battlefield is reasonably level.
especially since its just literally about having characters that do things
thats what happens in a story lol, you can write about a whole ships experience but thats not the point of the story?????
i think they might be coping about the anarchism thing
and even though in most instances they only barely escape, and killing all targets is only due to a wholesale advantage of tech, tactics, and intel
Also the webnovel features large swathes of ship combat. Murati and the rest of the Diver crew need the Brigand, no great man here. They are a collective force.
It did strike me as slightly eyerolling, that. Like okay, I dig that we are killing racist chauvinist imperialist fucks, like the whole Book 5 where those guys get roasted is rad, fuck em. I was saying
and shit. But uh, it's weird that every single anarchist in this universe is a racist, Idk. I asked if it was sectarianism at the time and got no reply.
its literally talked about all the time how divers are nothing without the crew of the brigand, this individualist vs collectivism rant hold little water. Reminds me of that random person who hated on 'leaderism' just to start an argument in hexbear last month or so. Very annoying.
i mean i just see it as realistic, its not like they respect borders and shit, and then they start attacking the shimii because they're a conservative statist force in the way of anarchist liberation or some shit.
i dont think we've run into anarchist characters tho, and some aren't racist like that one diplomat, but this is what happens when you dont have a force to actually deal with systemic hatred of a people and just let them do whatever.
the author is big time Marxist Leninist who takes the line of 'anarchists are as much our enemy as the white army' which i dont think is necessarily incorrect. gotta have firm beliefs people or they will break.
Sectarianism - New General Megatrans for the week of Sept 16
fine fine fine
ive taken a shower, eaten some girlfood, taken my pills, and yadda yadda. Time to actually talk about the whole anarchism in unjust depths situation.
First of all, the anarchists are either neutral or active antagonists. This is obviously influenced by the authors ideology, and admittedly it gets excessive at different points. The author is both trying to write a story while also building the plot with anarchists around their criticism of anarchism.
But it semi-accurately portrays any kind of left unity in a real situation. Left Unity only lasts so long, as when the capitalists are bashed and the fascists are gone, who is left? Ideologically uncompromising marxists and ideologically uncompromising anarchists. With the union we see a delicate balance struck. The mountain anarchists get their mountain, the Union gets the rest and they both dont tough each other, ignoring each other.
wait before that have you gotten toward the United Front discussions, this is important for the whole thing. The whole anarchist-mordecai-ist beef is fleshed out historically, as well as the classic ideological beefs.
Alright well I'm glad to see some kind of chatter about it, I wasn't really sure what to think. I'm way too fucking much of a neurotypical liberal wrecker to be able to assess that shit myself. I was better at reading theory at work.
No I have not lmao, 10.4 is the last chapter I read, so Imbrian station with Homa messin around.
yeah its quite the topic and one thats difficult to cover, anarchism in unjust depths is also stuck with being the kautskyists and trotskyists of the world. They wanted ideological control of the Union, or at least one salty boi thought he would get that, despite the minor role they played in it. So anarchists in this world take a very antagonistic view themselves toward the union, seeing it as just as bad as the capitalists and fascists. I call them the Orwell left. Annoying whether socialist or anarchist. sadly the anarchists are made to be the sort of collection of this. at least until the recent emerging of the Social Democrats in recent chapters.
Sadly the anarchists in bosporus are the settler leftists if that makes more sense. The anarchists that took part in the Union revolution were slaves alongside the Shimmi (i keep forgetting how to spell things in this universe)and the rest. Bosporus was built from ethnic cleansing of the shimii population that now lives in the pass. Thats my interpretation at least, sort of a western left anarchist instead of a catalonian anarchist. Even among the Bosporus anarchists there is conflicting views that are heavily implied since some stations are union socialists, others anarcho communists, and whatnot.
and these kind of anarchists are the ones most frequently run into. It definitely reflects the authors own experience with anarchists, as every representation is colored in a very ideological way. I do see it as definitely realistic, but having some slight humanization of them and their plight would help characterize them since they've only appeared in antagonistic settings.
ah okay, so thats important to the thing i do recommend reading it.
Okay duh, I know all of this. Obviously the Bosporan anarchists are reprehensible and deserve to be on the receiving end of Majida's jihad. This I am aware of.
I kinda hoped you would say more than "Yeah and they're all racists because it's very true, anecdote! [Source:
]" which is like...... super legit...........
Like do you have anything concrete on why depicting every anarchist in the setting as a giant racist is fine and cool? And maybe bumping up against the sectarianism rule, anything concrete about like how or why such a thing would develop among anarchists, sheesh.
also i never really said this??? I said my interpretation is that the current anarchists they bump into are problems even if they were socialist. Im holding out hope for a less antagonistic representation of anarchism but im just trying to talk about how they exist within the story and the reasons the author does this. Im still trying to parse my analysis, and im not trying to start a fight, please bear with me.
Left Unity is not for sure, and there are uncompromising differences between leftist ideologies, but that just means we must approach it acknowledging the differences rather than just sort of sitting in a pool of opposing ideologies and just passively absorbing them to create an incoherent combined mass.
I do, going forth, want to state i do think the author misrepresents anarchism by opportunistically putting them in situations which makes them the bad guys, never really putting them successfully in a grey area that can be worked with.
I was referring to this, y'know. Also it would be notable if any of UD's socialists were giant racists, but to my mind up to 10.4 I'm pretty sure all of the Union people are pretty cool, aside from that one guy, y'know Murati's guardian he's a fuckin weird freak, fuck him. It's almost binary really.
Woah hey, I would never do this! Smh! You have to read theory instead of just sponging random stuff, which I have definitely for certain done the former, lmao. (I unironically need to read theory but I am exhausted and low focus, having a firm opinion on this subject might be fuckin useful)
That's a pretty good statement to make, I think given that I mostly don't disagree with what you're sayin.
i think the discussion of socialists is different in universe and is inherently represented as such. Since the socialists do deal with dealing with racism, but in universe is represented as mostly solved. The Union has a very empowered shimii population, and Shimii fighters were at the frontlines of the revolution as well as its leadership. The people of the Union are a very diverse group of humanoids who all fought together against slavery. In such, the contradiction is represented as being solved, and the solving of which is represented as a core part of Mordecaism-Jayanskarism (in universe marxism leninism).
The anarchists in universe dont really have that history, especially that of the bosporus anarchists. (The reason i keep bringing them up is because they are like the only anarchists in the ocean besides that in the United Front organization and the Mountain. The mountain anarchists not really being touched upon all that much besides the small hostility due to purely political reasons.)
So its hard to talk about anarchists in universe since the only ones we have experience with ARE the racist ones.
dw about it i sponge things up too, and i do acknowledge how damn hard it is for us neurodivergents to dedicate to theory. I myself do it too rarely, and usually through video or audio format sadly. Even then only when im on meds. im with you on that.
I can say, the whole Shimii unity stuff we get to see in universe fucking rocks. I think that's in Book 9, but in a lot of ways the Union seems kinda like a utopia, looking in from our hellworld. I guess I should keep reading to see how this goes, if anything improves regarding various other issues of basically-racism in and around the funny ocean.
I actually didn:t know the mountain anarchists were distinct from the Bosporan ones, uh TIL I guess. I mean it is telling that the webnovel's lens is only on the big racism anarchists, but since there's room for that to change or expand I guess it deserves a little slack. Uh, Trust The Madiha Plan or smth.
Pft I fucking hate life, seriously I thought it was gonna be Theorytown when I got fired and I'd spend all my time reading volumes of Lenin and shit, maybe become a Capital vol1 understander, but I'm not that much less exhausted than I was, this sucks. It was legit easier to read theory on stolen time at work, lol.
My apologies if I came off as too harsh at any point today..
definitely, one of my favorite parts of the story is seeing their better society. sure its got some rough edges and issues, but they're looking forward, empowering each other, and leaving no one behind. Its a dream, to see the downtrodden of society rip off their chains and walk their own path. Im getting very emotional about this ahhhhhhh lol.
and yeah its definitely so much better compared to the shit we have to deal with right now its not even close. Widely available free hormones? Free universal healthcare? Us transgenders not just accepted into society but the builders of it and equals to all. Transphobia literally was not encountered by Murati until she left the union by my recollection. Imagine just being trans and never feeling like you're under threat from it, like its a secret, but that its something you just are that no one will judge you for unless they're reactionaries. And transphobes literally get locked up its amazing.
Thats just the trans stuff. Its the only place in the whole ocean where all humanoid races can truly say they are treated without discrimination. It means a lot coming from Shimii and Katarrans after seeing the prejudice they face in the day to day, as Homa's arc really shows us in a truly grim fashion. The Union also has the largest membership of a shimii religion that is a smaller divergence from the main one. I think it is called Rhadinists, and the larger one Mahidists (something close to that sorry because i definitely misspelled). That scene of Bhavani walking around one of the Shimii communities in the Union just was so goddamm good. Compared to the communities forged out of shimii under occupation, these are shimii without the boot of racism upon their heads and it brings tears to my eyes sometimes to just see a race so commonly discriminated and broken carving itself away and making its own path. Another example would be the Caliphate the Bosporians attack, when the delegate walked around and saw all the Shimii living free. But in that situation they were forced into hiding and living off piracy (based but they deserve to surf their seas as their own not 'stealing' from what is rightfully theirs), but in the Union Shimmi live free. Seeing that kind of unity and self empowerment is just beautiful to behold even if its not real.
being real with you, do not depend on the united front anarchists. It isn't their fault necessarily but it doesn't...
well you'll see. A very very old enemy makes a return and the anarchists are caught unawares.
same, i learned much more while procrastinating at my work then when i had all the time in the world. Its weird ig lol. Maybe the active wage exploitation becomes a motivator??? Brains are weird.
we are tired even when we sleep lmao
nah its fine it all worked out
Okay can we talk about how good every 10.x chapter is? I find Homa's portion is sooooooooooo fucking good, the bit where she's on the train and staring up at the station tower feeling powerless is so good, hits like a ton of bricks. Fucking incredible.
Oh yeah this is what I was referring to earlier!!! This shit slaps, no notes. It is beautiful, it's great to see even in fiction. Most narratives are liberalism smh.
lol perhaps I will
Fuckin frustrating, but I will admit stealing work time to read the Manifesto felt pretty rad. Work is usually so mindnumbing that my focus goes right to my ereader, and so theory...
i dont think its all cool, i definitely think they need better representation in the fact that even though they are sometimes enemies, the left CAN and DOES unify to fight the true greater evils. Anarchists commonly work with communists to bash the fash. the left unity struggles during fascist occupations are examples of this. Left Unity is real and anarchists can be our comrades.
But at the same time they can be our enemies. The Spanish civil war had the anarchists split from the communists and condemning the spanish left to doom. The Anarchists in that one part of ukraine, and the constant fighting between the black and red armies. Every instance of anarchist revolution and socialist revolution usually has them both fighting each other.
I think the author could definitely try to represent both sides of the interactions between anarchists and communists, left unity and left infighting, instead of just left infighting. That is what the United Front negotiations are touching on at the moment. It also represents the Marxists as very overzealous in their fighting with anarchists and is actually represented as very childish. why are you arguing with anarchists over minute differences when you're trying to literally unite to fight actual fucking nazis???
The existence of the sectarianism rules does kind of provide a bubble in hexbear. We must dull the edges of our ideology that are inherently antagonistic to each other, and the long long bad history between us. These arguments flare up around hexbear and must be put down to keep it all together. This causes a sort of ideological mish mash where people think this is normal and usual, even though i have been unable to find any other such left unity on the entire internet. I come from Lemmygrad, and Lemmygrad literally bans anarchists of all stripes. As such there is no necessary discussion of compromising whos demands to fit whos agenda and whatnot. Although it is very effective and I myself really like left unity since I see it as far more useful to ally ourselves with anarchists than fight them.
I did think of Banderites when this came up. And that's interesting about the United Front stuff, if I ever pick it up again I will try to @ you about it. I gotta say this is a way less disagreeable take than I'd expect from you, guess the rule is doing its job. Looking outside, it seems like unifying to fight true greater evils would be a pretty good idea, I agree.
I know the rule, spent a lot of time reading the Lemmygrad rules, I have an account. Definitely a certified Lemmygrad Moment, of which there are several.
It's also not lost on me that this stuff in Unjust Depths (very probably) comes from the author's experiences, which does give me pause, I dunno. I do not hate Madiha for that, 'cause fuck, I dunno. If I ever read more I'll post about it though.
Did the soviets not have aircraft carriers because fighter jets are great man theory personified?
your take is shitty sorry
i like reading hot trans girls piloting cool mechs to blow up fascists
sorry that a story with characters focuses on the characters, which is individualism ig
Easily one of the worst takes I've seen on bearzone
Also
Sectarianism - New Trans Megathread for the Week of Sept 16