this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
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chapotraphouse
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Liberalism existed when all these things happened and what did it do besides feebly step aside for big business interests? At some point you have to realize the ideology is genocide all the way to its core. Liberalism IS Capitalism.
If you fear that communists are coming for you, then you need to ask yourself if your wages are worth it to sell the rest of humanity to the machine. The clock is ticking and climate change is not patient anymore.
Wait, really? There were that many Christians in the DPRK before the US led genocide? I know the United States intentionally killed 20% of the population and bombed the second most industrialized country in East Asia until there were no buildings taller than one level; but I didn't realize missionaries were that successful.
Good post BTW
There were and are churches there (with the pause for being bombed to rubble by USA) but they weren't at any point even close to being "christian nation", let alone "one of the most christian nations". There were below 10% of christians in Korea around 1950, and the % in DPRK is even less now, it was below 2% at 2005. Even occupied part of Korea, where there is some 30% christians now is nowhere near to be called "christian nation".
EDIT: there are 5 churches in Pyongyang officially, number similar to large village or small town in let's say Poland.
I think at its peak Pyongyang was 1/6th Christian. Which isn't a big deal for Euros but in East Asia the missionaries were salivating at those numbers. It was considered a huge success and both sides leveraged that narrative to cast Christians as either oppressed by the evil soviets or bombed to oblivion by their own bretheren.
Kim Il-Sung himself grew up Presbyterian and dedicated a rebuilt church to his mother after the war. Christianity in Japanese-occupied Korea was actually organized against the empire and was known for sprouting anti-authoritarian movements.
Christian news sources claim there were 3000 churches in North Korea before 1945-1953 (the end dates conveniently change depending on who you ask, but they overlap with wars which tend to be accompanied by human migrations). Pyongyang was supposedly called the "Jerusalem of the East" by contemporaries. All sources agree that after the Korean War there were no churches in the North.
Kim Il-Sung ordered some to be rebuilt, but churches with overt American influence were not allowed to take root. His personal statement on the fall of Christianity in the North was that the people couldn't bear seeing the atrocities committed by fellow Christians. I think it's something in the middle where American missionaries had an incentive to route their flocks to the south to support their fellow Americans, and the believers themselves were simply escaping the egregious American bombing campaigns. The rest is embellishment.
Despite people saying you can't be Christian in North Korea, there are pictures of the churches online. You can go to them. There's a seminary even. So it calls into question the idea of state repression in its entirety because you can refute it with the simple facts in front of your face.
Those are even really pretty architectural designs; no overwrought gaudy stained glass portraits; no crumbling, moldering brickwork; it's not a fuckin concrete-and-glass megachurch like what Osteen and his ilk would build... This is genuinely lovely and I ain't been an Abrahamic in nearly 2 decades now
It genuinely kinda sucks how you drive-by libs never ever reply. You're not even getting the PPB treatment, and yet you still can't even be bothered responding to one of the many good-faith replies you get. And then libs yell about how hexbear bad.
EDIT: when a lib replies and it's "I don't think nazis should have been executed"
I try to reply when I get around to it, but I just can't afford to spend a lot more than half an hour per day on lemmy.
Also, I have been banned from lemmygrad/hexbear communities before for "debate me, debate me"-behaviour, so I'm not sure you are as interested in my opinion as you claim.
Moreover, mods on here tend to delete replies they don't like, so I don't really feel like putting too much time into my replies if they just end up getting removed. At the same time I don't want to give half-assed responses either, so I often end up not responding at all.
Let's see what the modlog says about you...
Oh no. It's Five-Eyed.
Looks like a skill issue, I would simply not talk like an asshole
And they only ever reply to be insufferably smug. You are near enough the lib this thread is griping about.
We are interested in your opinion, but that doesn't mean we will tolerate
"own the tankies" behavior. If you behave like a know-it-all holler-than-ho smug piece of shit you will be handled as such.
And your "deleted" comments are still visible in the mod logs so you can shove that pathetic excuse already.
mm yes, i too like to deliberately swap the victims and the perpetrators. me smart.
Hmmmm it's almost like the consequential factor lies in the differences bewteen liberals and communists
I wonder what those crucial differences are
If someone came up to you and spit this nonsense at you, would you take it seriously?
Liberals don't want to execute Nazis, they want Nazis to register for elections then get 49% of the vote. Somehow this is a better outcome.
This is pretty brilliantly written. Only part I didn't like was point 3. Seems like the key there wasn't tanking the economy as a whole but rather allowing the wealthiest few to seize all the resources for private gain and expand the wealth gap to historic levels. The "economy" was doing great during most of this time.
Gamergators: religious fundies and feminists are just as bad because they both want to take away my video game treats
Hexbear: liberals and what they label conservatives may be rhetorically different but ultimately they both protect the imperial core because they depend on it
Liberals: clearly the above two groups are exactly the same
You support the mass starvation of children, you support genocide
All we want is justice, no one made you support Genocide Joe
1a) I need your honest opinion: Was executing the (few) Nazi leaders post WWII justified? Yes/no will suffice.
1b) Is it justified to execute egregious offenders of human rights and those who participate in or actively create the conditions for atrocities like mass murders or genocides? For this question, assume the UN definitions are the standard used and assume the people in question are found guilty and all legal options are exhausted on their end to reverse the decision. Do you think it's justifiable to remove people like this from the world? Yes/no again will suffice
The reason those two questions are relevant is because humanity generally agrees that yes, people who commit such crimes should be removed. If that means super forever prison or execution, I'm not sure that part matters, they will be gone from society either way.
The problem with your thought process is you are assuming that the top leadership of the US/NATO powers/EU broadly/AU/NZ (the "West" going forward) aren't guilty of the same crimes for which the historical punishment was death/forever prison.
I don't know if this comes from ignorance (the most likely reason) or willful overlooking of facts. But the facts are, and they are facts, the West has perpetuated and is still perpetuating atrocities that add up to multiple Holocausts over the decades. If the German leaders deserved death for their crimes post-war, then what the fuck do American leaders deserve for actively fueling a genocide in Gaza?
The issue is you are seeking hypocrisy where there is none to be found on this issue. To compare criminals perpetrating crimes (the leaders, militaries, media cheerleaders) with justice being dealt to those perpetrators is flawed.
It would be "hypocrisy" if the statement from communists (just to continue using them since that was one of the original groups. Liberals and communists) was "we condemn liberals for their violence and bloodthirst. It is objectionable to kill a person for any reason including as retribution for crimes they committed." Or something along those lines. That isn't the statement nor can it be genuinely inferred on a broad basis.
In short, you are equating specific, deliberate justice (in the form of targeted executions after some form of trial. Think of Nuremberg if it helps) with the general tendency towards violence and the background of killing that these leaders allow, excuse, and actively perpetrate on a continual basis.
You have not discovered some underlying hypocrisy. You just refuse to acknowledge that liberals are doing the crimes ie they are bloodthirsty. And since I've seriously held back so far on personal accusations, I won't make one now, but I will say this requires the mindset of genocide denialism to even begin to believe that there is hypocrisy on display. It would require the exact same mindset as someone upset over Nazis leaders facing execution. Or perhaps Southern US slavers facing execution post-war. It requires refusing to accept that one side is doing egregious crimes while the other side is advocating for ending those crimes and dealing out legal punishments to perpetrators.
1a: no 1b: no
I believe that killing is wrong. I believe that the means are at least as important as the end.
I agree that criminals need to be held accountable, but I think we disagree how they should be held accountable, or who we even consider to be criminals in the first place. Does thinking that free markets are a valid basis for an economic system make someone a criminal? I don't think so.
If you said: "We should get rid of warmongering politicians and hold them responsible for what they do/did" I'd be on your side. But saying that any liberal should be executed is quite a bit different.
Whew laddie
If you don’t think dudes like rudolf hoss deserve hanging then tbh you probably deserve hanging too
If they put their stamp, signature, or seal on actions that resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent sovereign civilians, at the hands of genocidal fascists that your liberals armed, bankrolled, and backed? If your liberals washed their hands in the trough of blood they've spent over 50 years making in the middle east? Then yeah, fuck a guillotine, a noose, or a firing squad; they deserve a Brazen Bull.
WHATABOUTISM