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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

In short: By the time a person is 18, they must effectively be able to communicate and understand conversationally in 2 languages and casually use them in daily life..., if not become completely fluent...

Other than that, any language goes (whether it is a locally-known one, or a popular one worldwide),

The only thing I hope to gain from this, is to rid the world of /Monolingual Betas/

Seriously though, has this been a policy before? Because I haven't heard of such one...

I think this can especially be used for citizenship...

Edit: I don't necessarily have any other presupposed requirements besides bilingualism, though we may have certain notions of such in this main goal

Edit II: In furthering this venture, I have realized that my liberalism may slightly poisoned my lens....

And for clarification...

Minimum dual language system:

Main national language + other language (likely another related language, but foreign ones are fine)

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[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 52 points 11 months ago

Counterpoint: Like 80% of bilinguals in Latin America (myself included) have American culture brainrot as a result of being able to go on anglo internet.

Synthesis: Mandatory bilingual policy, the English language is officially forbidden.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago

Mandatory bilingual policy, the English language is officially forbidden.

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

But if you can understand the enemy, you can understand how to get into its beating heart...

That being said, it's not necessarily a bilingual problem than a Western cultural one, eh?

[-] hexaflexagonbear@hexbear.net 32 points 11 months ago

Agreed.

Wait, nevermind I thought that said bisexual.

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[-] Othello@hexbear.net 31 points 11 months ago

i think you should HAVE to learn sign language.

[-] raven@hexbear.net 12 points 11 months ago

It would be so handy to communicate with someone from the other side of a window or something too

I expect everyone would develop a habit of signing some things while talking, to emphasize a point or provide context.

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago

Ogey then... which sign language? American?

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

they should learn their respective countries. I assume dialects like Black American Sign Language would be preserved through social learning. although a universal sign language could be cool. i think we should learn sign language because deaf people cant learn how to hear.

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[-] Sandinband@hexbear.net 19 points 11 months ago

I feel like this would just end with kids in poor school districts not being able to become citizens

Actually you might be able to get white support for that lmfao

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[-] ratboy@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago

I wish, I feel so inadequate being an American who only knows one language comparing myself to...Almost every other country in the world lol. If I ever have a kid I would insist that they start school taking language immersion classes if it were available

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago

Something something, I remembered a Latino joke how if a "Multilingual" refers to someone who speaks 3 or more languages, then "American" refers to someone who can only speak one...

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[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think a large part of why people in the anglo sphere only speak one language is that the school system doesn't do a great job of teaching it

I remember my french teacher would call us ignorant bigots for not speaking french - it's like you literally only taught us the word for pen

saying people must be bilingual is like saying people must be literate. Everyone agrees it would be a good thing to be bilingual but not everyone is educated in speaking multiple languages. I also think there is an element of classism in looking down on the monolingual as unless they come from a bilingual household the only bilingual people I've known had recieved private education for it

I personally would love to speak a second language but it wasn't something I was given the opportunity for as a child and learning one as an adult is hard work

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[-] Blep@hexbear.net 14 points 11 months ago

kkkanada has this but the two languages are extremely cursed. In practice most areas treat the French language requirements as a joke.

[-] KarlBarqs@hexbear.net 14 points 11 months ago

All of Canada treats the French requirements as a joke, Quebec treats speaking English as equivalent to genocide yea

[-] TheCaconym@hexbear.net 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Quebec genuinely cares more about the language than the french - by a lot

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[-] CaliforniaSpectre@hexbear.net 14 points 11 months ago

I agree, the fact that Spanish isn't mandatory from pre-school in the states is a fucking crime. Bilingualism is only a good thing, and there is so much cultural experience you miss out on by not speaking Spanish while living the Americas.

Maybe it's not learned great by everyone, but only by learning a bit will people start to learn how many more opportunities there are when you know two languages, and the drive to know more and more will come.

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[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 13 points 11 months ago

Data here is a few years old, but in most places in the EU, more people can speak at least one additional language than not.

https://jakubmarian.com/average-number-of-languages-spoken-by-the-eu-population/

I'd wager a big part of it is due to the legacy of colonialism, where in the Anglosphere there are so many people in every direction that speak the same language that there isn't the same incentive to learn another. Whereas, for most of human history, people have needed to learn additional languages, and often stay accustomed to learning new ones.

A conjecture you could make is that for any country where over 90% of people speak the primary language, then the more populous the country, the less likely people are to be bilingual. This explains Japan, and perhaps also Russia and large parts of Latin America.

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[-] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 12 points 11 months ago

I'll be shocked if burgerland isn't the only country in the global north where people only speak one language.

[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

Typical American exceptionalism, acting like the UK isn't just as stuck up about English.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

Does Japan count? They're pretty monolingual.

[-] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago

I would count them, foreign language classes (so basically English) are mandatory in Japanese schools, but I doubt many Japanese people speak other languages well.

I'd love to have some actual data for this, but searching mostly just brings up results for the Japanese language test for foreigners.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

From anecdotal experience being in Japan, it's very rare to meet someone who can casually communicate in English unless it's part of their job or they've studied abroad. English in schools is mandatory as a class, but it only seems enough to remember basic phrases rather than imparting full fluency. I'd compare it to how Americans in high school will often study Spanish or French, then remember none of it.

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[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

I think everyone should learn esperanto or some made up languange as a second language so that you can communicate with anyone in the world no matter what country they come from.

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago

Idk ... in my opinion, naturally-developed languages are the basis to go, but alr then...

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[-] DoiDoi@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

Spanish and Mandarin only.

We can make exceptions given the proper forms, but absolutely no English under any circumstances.

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Salamat sa Dios, dahil aking wikang hiniram ilang mga salita sa Espanyol...

Hirap pa though, ganyan siguro bakit ako gamitin Tagles (Taglish)... maraming beses...

Pero sinubukan ako, anuman yan, hindi ba?

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[-] SnAgCu@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago

somehow klanada passes this bar with their mandatory french requirements...

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[-] arabiclearner@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago

Ok but if we're using the US system to teach languages then no one is actually going to learn a language. People take "four years of Spanish" in high school and even claim that they "know Spanish' yet they probably couldn't even understand simple conversations or watch some super slow kid's show like Dora the Explorer. I mean think about it, they engage with the language like at most 5 hours a week during class and maybe 5 hours more for homework (which I highly doubt). That's nothing in the grand scheme of things when learning another lanuguage. You need hundreds, if not thousands of hours engaging with the language to become fluent.

[-] VILenin@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago

The problem with high school language classes is that the only thing they actually teach is memorization. They know how to read “the apple is red” but switch the words around and they’re totally lost.

Whole classes are basically just the teacher writing “gusta = like” on the board. You didn’t learn Spanish, you learned a less efficient version of machine translation.

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[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago

mandatory klingon as a second language

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[-] dinklesplein@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

they try to teach te reo maori in new zealand primary schools but its half assed as fuck and it basically doesn't actually teach the language to the point where most people suggest the issue is trying to teach a 'dead' language rather than the fact that it's not given the resources it needs. at least schoolkids maybe learn some catchy songs? idk, that's just my observation from my daughter's education, i didn't experience it myself.

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

I did in high school and your assessment is correct. You learn some words but not even to the level of conversational stuff. It does have the problem of languages like Gaelic that were suppressed though industrialisation where modern terminology is hard to create, but like Gaelic it was never dead.

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[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

I know a smattering of Spanish and German and both languages have come in clutch at random moments. Seriously, you'd never expect in the middle of a rush for a German tourist group to just shuffle up to your counter.

[-] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 12 points 11 months ago

meine deutche ist sheiße

[-] D61@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

Spanish was a mandatory class for two years in my USA highschool back in the 90's.

At best, for a little while, I could barely read it. Never was able to speak it.

Would have been cooler (and probably more effective) to have it be K-12. My spouse is kinda trying to learn Potawatomi in her spare time and this prompts us to occassionally wonder, "Just how did we learn to speak english, anyways?"

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[-] blobjim@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

This is already a policy in most of the world isn't it? Are you in an anglo country?

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[-] asg101@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

You are lucky to have more than 50% of the population fluent in just ONE language, good luck trying to mandate two.

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[-] ultraviolet@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

I support this as long as neither language is English

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[-] WoofWoof91@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago

i vote toki pona being mandatory

[-] CloutAtlas@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago
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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
71 points (100.0% liked)

chapotraphouse

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