this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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chapotraphouse
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Don't you see that's the point? You're accepting the framework of the two party system. God gave us two options and it would be sacrilege to deny him! You're allowing the "harm reduction party" to do harm unchecked, where opposing them in any meaningful way is impossible because it leaves the door open for the other party. You're guaranteeing them unlimited stability so that you can feel good about yourself for "reducing harm" forever. It doesn't matter if you hate the genocide against Palestinians or imperialism if in the end you have the same total political impact as a geriatric suburbanite pig who loves Amerikkka and the Democrats to the core. Again, what is this nebulous "praxis" you referenced?
If your queer friends care more about the potential "harm reduction" done by staying within the lines and allowing the 2.5th Reich to carry on its crimes unchecked than actually promoting independent political organization by driving votes away from the two "options" while there is mass discontent and the potential for a better future either through abstention or voting/campaigning for PSL, the Green Party, etc., then they're not worth it.
I'm allowing the harm reduction party to do harm unchecked, and you are wanting people to suffer so they'll see the error of their liberal ways. What you are advocating for is turning that gun around and firing it until the point is made. I am not okay with sacrificing people to stand on pride. If even one less person would die voting for Biden over trump, that's my choice in this exact moment in time. I am not willing to sacrifice untolds number of people on the gamble that maybe the libs will get it this time.
You can tell yourself that all you like but we can all see that plainly isn't true
Yeah dude. And not voting is doing a world of difference. Basically won the revolution already.
Your insulting me for saying i cannot stand on my pride and tell others to sacrifice when I know I will not be the one to suffer. I don't have a choice in the genocide. Voting Biden, voting trump, voting none ultimately changes nothing because we both are small cogs in the machine. We are still comrades, even if you would rather insult me over it.
Yeah dude voting for the less bad option has done a world of difference. I can feel the harm being reduced already by way of cops getting more money to beat the shit out of me and my friends. The harm feels soooooo reduced after we gave up any pretense of fighting COVID. The harm is just super duper reduced now that roe v. Wade has been overturned. Things have most certainly not gotten worse. Harm reduction is when you signal that genocide is cool and good.
I get your anger. I do not want to argue about it anymore. I got too emotional about this and need to log off and cool it. But I understand your anger and I share it. Im sorry if I implied some kinda moral superiority (bit more than imply) for my reasoning for voting. Ultimately voting does nothing and we both know it. I just cannot get past the reasoning I stated to not vote, but it is my own problem and I shouldn't of put that on anyone else.
We are still comrades, thank you for trying to convince me, I appreciate your view.
You do not get my anger nor do you share it. If you did you would respect the fact that you are not my comrade and you would not insist on calling me that, despite my repeated explanations for why you are not.
You're a painfully obvious little cretin attempting poor rhetorical trick after poor rhetorical trick, repeatedly evading the dozens of people patiently explaining to you why your arguments belies a fundamental rot in your being, instead glamming on to tone or rudeness, since that is the only thing you can cling to in order to avoid introspection.
This discussion ends here, you are not a comrade. You are completely okay with genocide and persecution, as long as the aesthetics are right. You are a piece of shit and if you keep on this road you will end up like all your fascist buddies
You have the ability to change for the better, but I do not believe you will ever utilise it, having seen how you've behaved here, what your beliefs are and how you choose to discuss them.
You might attempt to pretend this is a simple disagreement over voting, but as I've explained several times to you already it is because you are supporting genocide, the abolition of abortion rights, war, and so many other things. You might pretend you are a friendly comrade, but your behaviour reveals you.
A comrade would respect my gender.
I grow tired of this, I refer back to the many times I've already explained why you do not share my ideology. As you've admitted yourself, you are voting for a fascist.
Once again: It matters that you support all the shitty things biden do.
I am telling you that if you stepped into my org spouting all that bullshit, you would not be walking out again.
I've told you for what several times, you simply refuse to engage with it.
Plenty of fascists have tried being "genuine" with me, but the fact that you are nice to me matters little, especially when it is obviously disingenuine.
Because you support genocide and so many other things. Because you make demands but do not respect them. Because you're very obviously a cretin of a debatebro. Because you do not listen, but insist to continue this farce, because you are presented with opportunities for self betterment, but chose not to take them. Because you are, no matter your words, standing on the same side as fascist genociders.
I am very calm. I had hoped the aggressive reaction of someone you considers a friend and a comrade might have encouraged introspection. The fact that it doesn't once again reveals you to be a slimy little liar. You do not consider us comrades or friends, if you did, you would take the words to heart and reconsider.
The fact that you wish us to be comrades do not make us so. Feel free to fool yourself into believing it, that will only make you so much easier to treat
Apologies for not seeing the pronouns. I'm not used to checking them yet. Not used to being somewhere they are so easily presented. Definitely something to work on.
My problem at this point is that I see this as a small issue and you are presenting it as one worthy of actual fascisism. I find your position extremely accusational and unreasonable.
You say I support fascism. I give my personal stance on why I feel I cannot abstain from voting due to the reasons I laid out and you insult me like Im wearing an SS uniform. I cannot in any fucking way see that as anything other but unreasonable anger with no actual belief behind it because that's fucking insane.
Do you really believe that? Are you genuinely really actually telling me that it's so important that I don't vote, that if you knew me and we were friends you would be taking a baseball bat to me over it? You would boot me from your org and kick my ass on the way out?
If so, I don't fucking understand. Spent all this time talking about how voting is pointless , both candidates are the same, voting changes nothing and turn around and say but if you put a name down in the hopes maybe less people would get hurt that you are a card carrying Nazi scumbag.
Your right, I don't understand you. I don't understand why you continue threatening and talking about physical violence you wish you could enact on me. I do not consider it a way to encourage me to see your point. I ain't a fucking Nazi. I ain't a fucking fascist. You fucking know I ain't and trying to gaslight me into thinking I am some kinda monster is just fucking mean. It's manipulative. It's disrespectful. It's angry bad vibe bullshit for what. You convince me not to do the thing that doesn't matter? Cool. Glad I lost sleep over this.
Maybe instead of acting aggressively in the hopes my fear of not fitting in, you talk to me like a god damn human being. Now I'm all emotional, insomniac, and just generally pissed off and it's gonna continue. Mental state ruined. Even saying all this is just more fuel to your fire.
Whatever. If that's your bar, that's your bar. If you don't want to be nice, I am not dependent on you being so. After all that I'm still going to call you comrade, because I ain't gonna let some petty bullshit discussion make me forget my solidarity.
Not reading all of that. After first paragraph it's obvious you're retreading the same tired arguments.
If you were sorry, if you considered me a comrade, then you would actually have listened and not tried once again to pull the shit you're pulling.
Fuck you.
Holy shit, it's worse than I thought. I didn't think they would give a half-hearted corporate apology followed by several paragraphs of how sad 😩 you made them you meanie! How dare you upset them, the Main Character of the internet?
You'd think they'd consider why you keep saying that they're saying things that a fascist would say, and why you'd aggressively kick them out of any org you are a part of, but nope. You're just being mean.
They just don't seem to get that we aren't just being "mean people on the internet" but are being harsh and rude because we do not think their behaviour is in any way acceptable. This person wants to be friends, but doesn't seem to understand that if your friends tell you to stop being such a shitty person before you get bashed or killed, you should take that as a wake-up call and stop being so shitty.
I think I have to step away for some time too, it's not good to tap into that threatening tone for so long. I'll read it tomorrow maybe.
It's funny to me though how it always ends up at "I might be wrong, but YOU HURT MY FEELINGS!!!" as if harsh words arent the least they deserve.
It's always so funny how they belittle people they disagree with. "Hey now I'm a real human being you're being mean to" as if I don't know that. Real respectful of them.
Yeah, shitlibs gonna shitlib I guess. I was hoping there'd be something a little more interesting here.
I don't think they understand that actual genuine anger at their words is pretty rare, and out of frustration for wanting them to actually improve, usually we just dunk on people who say dumb shit (like that guy with the reddit avatar). So fucking narcissistic, thinking that we need to "play nice" and stop being mean just because they said so. Kind of wish I was playing lib bingo tonight, would've probably gotten one.
Their final signoff was a lib classic though. "You could've changed my mind if you had just coddled me and let me keep my toxic ideas intact, instead I'm going to refuse to self reflect because of how mean you were to me!"
I just skimmed the last of their final message and it's really funny.
On the one hand they will now log off, work thru their emotions and then do some self-crit (it seems).
On the other, if I'd just been nice and respectful to them, they would have changed their mind (which they also have said was never going to happen) or something? Wed have had a nice discussion? It seems like treating them harshly is the only thing that has any chance of having an effect, by their own admission, but I also messed up by treating them harshly, because they're sad now.
Who knows, I've been there myself.
Anyway good night, sleep tite
Yeah, being harsh like this sucks for them, it's not nice to try and be friendly and have people get mad at the things you say, it hurts, but it isn't done out of genuine hatred, just anger at what they are saying, and hope that they improve in the future. I do think this whole conversation will spark a big change in their behaviour going forward, hopefully a positive one, or at least helps them on the way to one. They seemed more close to proper self-crit than most libs I've seen, so I hope they reflect on this. Probably good that it's stopping now, if I had kept going, it wouldn't be out of a desire to see them improve, but it would just be bullying them. I should probably self-crit a bit myself and work on improving my self control.
Good night!
Sometimes bullying is all that works. That is sort of why hexbear got its reputation.
Maybe there's a little daylight between "bullying" by being firm and telling people they should be killed - and then acting incredulous that they thought you meant it.
I'm not incredulous that they thought I meant that they should get beat up, because I did mean it.
I'm "acting incredulous" about the fact that they behave in a shitty way, say shitty things, and are then surprised when people are mean to them. I "act incredulous" about the fact that they concede points, but since I made them sad, that's all that matters.
Yea, would punch them in real life
Not sorry
I meant more that it would no longer be bullying them to change their ways, but just mocking them to be a smug douchebag, being cruel for cruelty's sake. That's never a good place to be in.
You stated above that you would still vote blue for the sake of your LGBTQ+ friends.
Does voting affect the well being of these peoples or does it change nothing? Make up your mind. It's either 1 or the other, you can't have it both ways.