this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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I'd love to see those Hexbears have an answer for this!

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[–] Timberknave@hexbear.net 99 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Drawing those eyes on Mao, there is a reason you are afraid of communism enforced with violence

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[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 95 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Us, if we fall for their lies again

What "we"? You're just a bunch of liberals playing dress up, your political involvement is just a performance that stops when you log out of reddit and vooote for Genocide Joe. No connection at all to the political legacy of the anarchists who risked life and limb for humanity.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 66 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And who even is they? Do these liberals think there are Marxist parties in the west very nearly poised to take power?

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The hexbears and lemmygrads are gonna shoot me for my brave posting

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

Like koi fish in a barrel

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 94 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There were plenty of anarchist and libertarian socialists in the Soviet Union that weren't insurrectionist counter-revolutionary opportunists that thought the best time for them to seize power and hit the full Communism button without building anything to actually achieve it was during times of duress, such as the civil war, the build-up to then during the second world War, the post-war rebuilding period in former fascist countries, the post-war rebuilding period in a reunified country freed from imperialist conquest, and so forth.

If I was as historically illiterate and ideologically ignorant as the person that made this and all the clapping circus seals applauding this, I would say something completely out of line like "in the history of left unity, anarchism and libertarian socialism has only attempted to emerge into the world in the form of a cancerous tumor on the Communist movement and never has nor is able to emerge into the world on its own feet." A completely unfair and intellectually dishonest statement that ignores the existence of anarchist communes in both the Sino and former Soviet states and erases their contributions to the defense of humanity and the revolution they made in fending off the imperialists and fascists and their contributions to the benefit of humanity and the revolution in their work among the people.

Also love the casual racism against Asians by depicting Mao with slit eyes.

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[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 93 points 1 year ago (2 children)

imagine criticizing krushchev for the one thing he did right

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 81 points 1 year ago

He also supported Cuba.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 82 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Anarcho-bidenists have this weird habit of talking about themselves like they are Jewish or something in the sense of having a history of brutal persecution, even if the speaker in question is just some white guy from a liberal family with absolutely no connection to those historical anarchists except for that they now also call themselves an anarchist. Is really weird and LARPy.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 68 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Its a way for boring people who hate reading to tap into that "the communists KILLED my PEOPLE" narrative, its like a politcal personality starter pack. You get an underdog "subversive" ideology, a formative tragedy and an eternal enemy!

[–] SweaterWeather@hexbear.net 77 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The evolution from "Stalin didn't help enough" to "Stalin didn't help at all" to "Stalin actually killed them" regarding the Spanish Civil War is fucking wild.

Editing to fix my dog ass grammar

[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago

Anarchists cannot fail, they can only be failed. Further proving Western anarchists on the internet are libs who like the edge & aesthetic.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Meanwhile in the original thread I'm arguing with 'an historian' claiming Stalin sent 'his army' there in a sentence that presented it equally to both Hitler and Mussolini

I'm convinced that instance has the most tedious people on the planet

[–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 76 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

there's someone in the original .world thread lumping in anyone who opposes capitalism as being a tankie and someone else saying that anyone who doesnt support israel is a "genocidal tankie" and repeatedly accusing one of the anti-tankies in the thread of being a tankie because they haven't condemned hamas yet data-laughing

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago

Doing god's work by making that word make even less sense

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More proof that tankie means woke

[–] Dr_Gabriel_Aby@hexbear.net 70 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I can understand getting fooled and believing all the bad stuff about Mao and Stalin, but I genuinely don’t understand how libs treat Lenin like a great evil. They can’t even give Lenin the “his revolution got out of hand when he died” point. I really don’t see what Lenin did that was extreme. The provisional government was about to be overthrown by reactionaries and they already attempted so before the October Revolution. He took power by popular support and most of his factions enemies were foreign to Russian soil.

[–] Findom_DeLuise@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I really don’t see what Lenin did that was extreme

According to the historical documentary film Anastasia (2020), he personally owned

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Remember that netflix docu series about the tsar family where they intercut a recreation of their execution with a historian calling it(paraphrased) the most hideous and bestial crime of the 20th century?

[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 40 points 1 year ago

Anti-communists can't help but reveal themselves as Nazis example #320,455,980,656

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[–] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Well, to paraphrase Molotov, Lenin was even more harsh than Stalin, particularly to his allies. During the height of the revolution and civil war, if he got a letter from a peasant claiming communist party corruption or malfeasance in an area, he would deputize a university professor and some students to go check it out, and if evidence was found of that corruption or malfeasance to their satisfaction (which had no real legal precedent) they had the discretion to either eject them from the party or, depending on the severity of the offense, just straight up execute them, no trial. Which happened fairly regularly. It was not a case of "We have investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing."

Even if you think the evidence standards were lax in the USSR during Stalin's time (which imo they were basically the same as pretty much everyone else's at the time, they were just far more aggressive at pursuing legal actions against high level party members and generals) at the helm, he still always had trials before executing people, even going as far as trying people in absentia, something that Lenin would have considered a ridiculous liberal facade.

Don't get me wrong, these were harsh people, but in comparison to the consequences that would face them and the millions peasants they led if they failed, I don't think they were unnecessarily harsh.

[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even if you think the evidence standards were lax in the USSR during Stalin's time (which imo they were basically the same as pretty much everyone else's at the time

Yeah people who complain about this don't compare 1930s Soviet courtrooms to 1930s U.S. courtrooms (because that would be whataboitism, not, you know, having perspective). Think of all the people who had confessions beat out of them or got railroaded on the flimsiest of evidence. Think of all the black people who never made it to the courtroom at all.

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[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 67 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Unsure where the author of this meme has heard either Lenin or Stalin call for left unity? Both were pretty clearly and consistently hostile towards Anarchism/Libertarian Socialism as well as what we'd call modern Social Democratic tendencies.

Only not including Mao because I havent read enough Mao and Khruschev because I honestly don't expect him to have written or spoken in particular about left tendency conflicts.

Really funny to just put "intellectuals" under Mao though.

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

If they wanted a remotely accurate meme they should have put "no unity with counter-revolutionaries" as the dialogue, since that at least gets at the core divide and argument of the conflict, both then and now.

Edit: Actually the more I look at it the funnier it gets, like theres no Kronstadt? You put "factory councils" over like the one specific thing everyone gets to hear about and have to have an opinion on? What is this, a crypto-Trotskyist meme?

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lenin did kind of revere Kropotkin, but you are right that it was explicitly part of their organization that "there is one party line, not two" and that the vanguard must behave in a unified fashion following the results of a vote or other method of decision-making.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago

and that the vanguard must behave in a unified fashion following the results of a vote or other method of decision-making

This is democratic centralism: Freedom of debate - Unity of action.

[–] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Mao was an anarchist for a minute and actually tried to set up a representational system where multiple anti-capitalist parties could hold office, but no liberals (it was during the Civil War and lasted about 5 minutes before getting replaced by a single party system)

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[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If anyone, anywhere, is ever told what to do for any length of time for any reason, that may as well be a firing squad according to No Veggies At Dinner No Bedtimes unexamined theory-free "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" pop anarchists.

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[–] The_Walkening@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago

Not Pictured: Uncle Sam applauding Rojava for their help in stealing 80% of Syria's daily oil output.

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This meme: Lenin hates Ukraine

Meanwhile Rosa Luxemburg be like "Lenin is too attached to the idea of an independent Ukraine"

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

TIL Rosa Luxemburg supports the cultural genocide of Ukraine

[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 43 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Anticommunism aside, since when were MLs pushing for left unity?

[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

Since the establishment of hexbear.net

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[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

WTF is a Libertarian Socialist? Isn't that like an oxymoron?

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Think Kropotkin-style anarchism. "Libertarian" used to refer to anarcho-communism--communism without states, hierarchies, and so on--until Rothbard and company started using it to mean laissez-faire capitalism during the 20th century. Some anarchists will still call themselves libertarian socialists or left-libertarians (not to be confused with "bleeding heart libertarians" or "liberaltarians," which are as awful as you'd expect).

[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ahh Captured term from ancom-pat Thanks.

Being an amerikkka and only knowing Libertarian as Ayn Rand and libertarian-alert makes it a bit cat-confused

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, that was their deliberate plan. Rothbard wrote:

For the first time in my memory, we, 'our side,' had captured a crucial word from the enemy. 'Libertarians' had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we have taken it over.

He was successful to the point that very few people use it in the old sense anymore, unfortunately. This is especially true in amerikkka

[–] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Probably worth pointing out that Hitler talks about doing the same thing with the word socialism.

[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Socialism with kid-diddling characteristics

Really it's "socialist economy with a significant emphasis on individual rights, e.g., free speech." It doesn't sound too bad until you (paraphrasing Parenti here) contemplate the difficulties of actually running a state, confronting capitalist attacks on your state, handling reactionary groups within your state, etc. Basically "do you let the fascists publish their newspaper the day after the revolution?"

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[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Basic summary is its supposed to be Communism without as hard of a grip on the state and structures of society, "without the authoritarianism" as ideological of an explanation as that is.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So communism without even the conditions for socialism

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[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

What if we made a proletarian state without capitalism then implemented absolutely nothing to protect itself from the re-establishment of capital?

Sounds really hot for those with a perpetual losing fetish.

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[–] toomanyjoints69@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 1 year ago

Id tell them that we arent building nations over here and our activism consists of feeding homeless people. So go on believing this if you want, but if it causes you to tear down our nice little mutual aid project then youre terrible.

The person who wrote this is convinced theyre sauron when we are all just regular orcs. You dont have the kind of leadership over whatever movement ends up forming the way Martin Luther King or someone like that did. Dont delusionally think you will.

[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why don’t the libertarians and anarchists simply acquire larger guns?

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[–] Rom@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Half of this dork's posts are "everyone in this thread is angry except for me!" lmao

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[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Something something no sectarianism and all, but it'd be nice if some fairweather comrades (the kind that stick around until their personal treat flow seems vaguely threatened, or even criticized, or until someone tells them what they should do for the sake of society or the planet) stopped dumping steaming smelly takes into the middle of the room while expecting everyone watching to nod along and congratulate them or run the risk of seeming sectarian.

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[–] plinky@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

sadness anarcho-comrades shouldn't have exploded bukharin tho, dumbest target selection in history of selections. *And shot lenin

But ussr should have allowed internal factionalism after nep and/or after ww2

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[–] Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I got banned from that comm for "harassment" because I argued with more than one person

But they're so not mad bro no they're not mad they're laughing actually they think its so funny they're not own they're not owned- corn-man-khrush

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