this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

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Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

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[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 165 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

You left out the best part?

I'm all for small government, but I'm realizing I'm not for NO government. Having some shared land we can all use as we wish is good. Having areas set aside for public use is good. this side of the mountain is for off-roading (and no you dont need a license plate), this other side is for hiking and camping

I hate a lot of WA state's ultra liberal policies and high taxes. But I also feel I had more freedom there in many ways.

Maybe I don't actually like what I've always advocated for after all...

Discuss...

Edit: 3 days later I got banned from this sub over this post. Freedom lovers my ass. This is place is run by ashamed right-wingers.

If I want to be charitable this even sounds like someone that is more lost on the sea of ideological garbage of the internet i.e no access to anyone or anything that would educate them towards socialism or even the obvious critiques of capitalism so they defaulted to the standard American ideals until it personaly affected them, then they realized "wait this doesn't quite make sense". They could be saved if they were lucky to have someone waste time educating them, but most likely just become a conventional lib instead.

[–] the_kid@hexbear.net 103 points 11 months ago (2 children)

this person's politics are mine when I was like 12. "oh Ron Paul wants to legalize drugs and doesn't want any more wars, I guess I'm a libertarian"

[–] beef_curds@hexbear.net 73 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I feel like "libertarian" is just vibes-based for dudes of a certain age, and not really an ideology. Like "centrist" it's a way of signalling to each other that they stand above politics, and don't get involved in the petty bickering of people who care about things.

When the rubber hits the road, and they start interacting with the world, they'll settle into their actual politics. Usually it'll break toward resentment-based fashy stuff, like "centrists," because the vibe coming from a place of "I'm better than that," to begin with. But it can go the other way too if it's coming from where you were at, or if they start being personally affected/targeted by their allies.

[–] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 34 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I feel like "libertarian" is just vibes-based for dudes of a certain age, and not really an ideology. Like "centrist" it's a way of signalling to each other that they stand above politics, and don't get involved in the petty bickering of people who care about things.

I think this was through intentional propaganda: stuff like framing that stupid political compass as two Freedom - Authoritarian axes and South Park's detached contrarianism. The end goal is to get these people to vote for conservative causes and convert some of them to ancaptain ideology.

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[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 54 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They found out that American "libertarians" are just Republicans except they want weed to be legal. There's a reason why the Cato Institute, the Libertarian Party and other garbage institutions are funded by the Kochs and other powerful figures: because they pose no threat to the establishment and having a fake third party around is useful.

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[–] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 45 points 11 months ago

(and no you dont need a license plate)

I WANNA BE ABLE TO OFF-ROAD ON PUBLIC LAND! BUT I ALSO DONT WANT THE GUBERMENT TO HAVE ANY MEANS OF HOLDING ME ACCOUNTABLE IF I RUN OVER A MOUNTAIN BIKER!!!

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

glasses-off

This is place is run by ashamed right-wingers.

glasses-on

We are all right wingers but some are even more dishonest.

[–] lil_tank@lemmygrad.ml 125 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I honestly respect their ability to question their beliefs based on their real experiences

[–] buh@hexbear.net 62 points 11 months ago (1 children)

not just that, but to arrive at a conclusion that is at least vaguely in the correct direction. some libertarians have similar experiences but decide that the reason places like texas suck is because there's still a tiny little amount of government regulation/services

[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’ve seen some people say some shit like “after 2010 Texas was infiltrated by communists. It ain’t like it used to be”

[–] buh@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Infamous communist cells Oracle Corporation and Tesla

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[–] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 105 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

farquaad-point the libertarian has been forced to realize that his freedom is contingent on other people's positive actions!

[–] Spike@hexbear.net 94 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This person has never once thought in their life how anything is maintained

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 59 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ever meet a "hah, you statists think you need public roads" smuglord type, who thought it was an own to call out that you mentioned public roads as if it was a self-own without having any viable way around that need that isn't even more of a public service like trains?

They're out there, and they will sometimes resort to something fucking bazinga like "jetpacks!" for an answer. galaxy-brain

[–] sevenapples@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I've seen a libertarian on reddit argue that the gubberment doesn't nees to build roads because corporations will do it in order to reach new consumers.

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[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 52 points 11 months ago (1 children)

a bunch of federal land isn't maintained and especially out west you can just go fuck around in the middle of stolen nowhere.

[–] Nationalgoatism@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

Can confirm, have worked for the forest service. It's mostly skeleton crews to manage thousands upon thousands of acres. Even less in BLM lands, but that's also because they are usually just rented for almost nothing to ranchers and oil prospectors (hence why we call them the bureau of livestock and mining)

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 89 points 11 months ago (7 children)

I've spent a significant amount of time in most states east of the Mississippi. A while ago I went to Texas for the first time outside the confines of an airport.

Texas is maybe the worst state I've been to. "Maybe" because I'm deciding if Louisiana is worse, excluding Nola.

If you hate pervasive Republican/conservative/Christian ideology, you will hate Texas. If you hate Libertarianism, you will hate Texas. If you hate car-dominated transit, you will hate Texas.

The best thing about Texas is tacos and general Tex-Mex food. Not a huge endorsement of a place if its best attributes are its external influences.

[–] roux@hexbear.net 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've lived here for over a decade and this is all correct.

Grab a few tacos on the way through but burn it all down behind you please. It fucking sucks here.

[–] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 36 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Give it back to Mexico, then let them burn down Dallas and Houston.

[–] Morgoon@startrek.website 38 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I went to Houston for the first time this year. I knew they're against any socialist policies but the thing that shocked me was no sidewalks! I was wondering how they managed so I did some research and they just don't. Hundreds of pedestrians are killed each year in the greater Houston sidewalk-less suburban area (statistically seniors?)

[–] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 27 points 11 months ago

Houston is a nightmare, I've been doing a ton of permitting out there and it's basically impossible because they use 95% of the right of way for the widest streets possible and if you're lucky enough to have a sidewalk, it usually doesn't connect to anything.

It's not as bad as Scottsdale/Phoenix though

[–] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago

Austin is the same, my sister lives there and a couple times while visiting her I walked her dog. Some houses have sidewalks, some don't, it's totally left up to the discretion of the home builder/owner if they want to put one in. So you'll have two houses with side walks then 6 with one and then one house with one...

It's fucking horrible for walking dogs and pedestrians in general.

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[–] 420stalin69@hexbear.net 73 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As a libertarian, I think we should stop empowering corporations to control our lives and give the right to decide how the economy functions to decentralized local government run by local communities instead of this centralized monopolistic crony system we call “capitalism” is a great bit that would win some hearts and minds.

[–] Huldra@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Idk if it would, libertarians can think local governments are big government anyways and just a sneaky tool for little authoritarians to impose their will on their neighbors like ensuring that the water doesnt get poisoned.

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[–] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 71 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Here in commiefornia I can ride my motorcycle like thirty minutes to the nearest OHV area and go nuts 🏍 💨 and the roads between here are there are all twisties

But I'm not dunking in this guy necessarily, he learned the most important lesson you can learn about American politics: nobody is actually a libertarian, libertarianism is completely fake and the libertarian party is just conservatives who don't have the same social bugbears that Republicans have.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 53 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

No one is a libertarian because the social base for libertarianism comprises of people in untenable economic situations. They're all guys in the dead center of the middle class who all think they'd be billionaires if not for taxes. They have no other concerns, they just want to be rich out of boredom because they have no other concerns. Sometimes they have to fill out too much paperwork to buy an assault rifle or they pay a little too much property tax and they interpret this as persecution, because they can't have more toys. It's the ideology of comfortable white guys, but not so comfortable they're living as lavish ghouls in mansions. The actual bourgeoisie aren't libertarians because they know it's a dead end ideology. If libertarians ever reach that amount of wealth they morph into standard neoliberals, or obtain god complexes. Or if they slip out of their comfortable amount of wealth and become more working class, it's a 50/50 chance they become a socialist or a reactionary depending on geography and peer group.

[–] CrimsonSage@hexbear.net 19 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The only bit I will disagree with is that there are 10000% libertarian billionaires. Other than that spot on.

[–] g_g@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

those, i assume, are the god complex obtainers

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[–] sammer510@hexbear.net 37 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We literally have a public trail that goes from Mexico to Canada thru California, Oregon, and Washington. You can walk the whole way. Texans can only dream of such freedom

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

But does a billionaire fuck have the freedom to buy that trail and seal it off so no one can use it? That isn't real freedom unless he can smuglord

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[–] chungusamonugs@hexbear.net 64 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Kind of telling that this person seems to think of freedom/liberties in terms of "where can I drive big truck and shoot wild animal." Up top, they even address the "call yourself whatever gender/abort whoever/marry whoever" as if those aren't freedoms that are already, or are currently in the process of, being dismantled. It's impressive to watch the selfishness of the philosophy fold in on itself when things that affect them are attacked.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"call yourself whatever gender/abort whoever/marry whoever - just don't expect me to do a damn thing as those rights are dismantled"

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[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 25 points 11 months ago

Libertarianism and centrism are just “fuck you I got mine” as ideologies.

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[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 55 points 11 months ago (4 children)

A friend of mine who moved from Chicago to Dallas remarked at how there are suddenly all sorts of people who will call the cops on you for walking down the side of the highway.

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[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 54 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

Fun fact: despite Texas’s reputation of being heavily armed, there are almost zero places for gun owners to actually shoot outdoors. Compare that to blue states where that are usually a lot of public land that you can drive to, put up some targets, and shoot for free 24/7 (except when there’s maintenance or closures due to disrespectful assholes).

Essentially, unless you’re rich and own land or have a buddy who owns land or willing to shell out fees every time you shoot outdoors, most texans just own a bunch of guns and shoot in a fixed position at indoor ranges.

Obviously you can still be lethal from basic marksmanship, but the romantic imagination of Texans holding down the fort during a civil war is just that - imagination. Most of them have no better training than your meemaw who shoots a gun every few months at an indoor range, 1 round every 20 seconds because anything else is considered rapid automatic assault fire mode.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

1 round every 20 seconds because anything else is considered rapid automatic assault fire mode.

>tfw when Texans can only shoot at the same rate as well-drilled Napoleonic infantry.

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[–] buh@hexbear.net 23 points 11 months ago

tbh I feel like in a civil war type event they would just freeze/cook to death after some chud militia shoots up 1 power transformer, taking down their already fragile grid

[–] wahwahwah@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Compare that to blue states where that are usually a lot of public land that you can drive to, put up some targets, and shoot for free 24/7

I wonder how many dead bodies that get discovered in the wilderness are just hikers who caught stray bullets because American gun owners are stupid.

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[–] the_kid@hexbear.net 53 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Tommasi@hexbear.net 46 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I'm aborting all libertarians

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 40 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You make me want to cry. That's (In my opinion) kind of cruel. But even so, I do respect YOUR opinion.

[–] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 32 points 11 months ago

i will abort more, and the rest of the fash besides

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[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 49 points 11 months ago

Sounds like they grew out of it tbh

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 38 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How do libertarians think the "freest" states are the ones where you can go to prison for weed, women don't have bodily autonomy, trans rights are consistently under attack, books are banned in schools, workers have the least rights and protections, the highest number of people are uninsured, immigrants are put in camps, and the government has the power to execute people?

[–] alexandra_kollontai@hexbear.net 38 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Because they aren't in any of the above categories so it doesn't personally affect them

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[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 36 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Big L for "if I say 'simple' as a thought terminating cliche to dismiss more complex situations I seem very smart" smuglords there.

[–] Sarcasmenul@hexbear.net 26 points 11 months ago

I have never read such stupid, babbling drivel before, screw you OP, I think this made me stupid cowboy-cri

[–] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 25 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Libertarian actually obtains self-awareness challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

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