chapotraphouse

There was never anything activists could do to make a difference that was legal or only punishable with mild consequences.

US foreign policy is completely divorced from popular will or demand.

Basically every great achievement for the proletarians of the world seemed impossible right up until it was possible and then, in retrospect, it is very easy to lapse into complacency and assume that it was inevitable all along.

Vietnam took on the fucking United States and won.

The Bolsheviks took on the aristocracy and the capitalists of the world and won.

We must guard against cynicism foreclosing on the opportunities that may be presented to us in the present and in the future. If the Viet Minh allowed this to happen, Vietnam would still be a colony. If the Bolsheviks allowed this to happen, Russia would still be a Tsardom.

Here's a quote from Mike Davis in an interview to chew on:

‘Hope’ is not a scientific category. Nor is it a necessary obligation... I manifestly do believe that we have arrived at a ‘final conflict’ that will decide the survival of a large part of poor humanity over the next half century. Against this future we must fight like the Red Army in the rubble of Stalingrad. Fight with hope, fight without hope, but fight absolutely.

presuming you live in the imperial core, like me, where working people are so hesitant to sacrifice anything for an internationalist working class struggle, supporting Palestine is arguably one of the most revolutionary actions you can personally take

I've had a lot of good convos at my workplace agitating people pressing them to join their union in response to the bosses silence on the conflict

dont forget to take time for yourself though, so many people are burning themselves out on this shit :/

Hamas is able to fight and score wins against a vastly more powerful and technologically advanced fighting force, backed up by the most advanced surveillance state on Earth and funded with unlimited support.

There's nothing we can learn from that and it's completely unrelated to your question. Just something I think about from time to time, that's all.

Protesting rarely has any impact on actual policy. Both public and foreign policy have little to no relationship to public sentiment.

That being said, I think that more young people in particular than ever before are seeing the visceral evil which is the Western imperialist empire laid bare in front of them.

Over and above it being the right thing to do to stand up for Palestine, and wondering what you're gonna tell your grandkids when they ask you what you were doing during the Palestine Holocaust, it's really radicalising people right now and probably an excellent opportunity to push them further to the left and get them on board with other anti-imperialist / socialist struggles.

BDS and that UN ruling are getting some contracts broken but idk if it's enough.

it doesn't seem like people are willing to but I don't see how anything short of incredible violence could shake the empire from its path.

If there are no protests then Zionists and Imperialists will have full control over mass opinion because they control mass media in an environment with atomized civilians.

Then everyone will be completely demoralised and the probability of anything happening moves closer to zero.

The protests are a reality check, a place for communion to for everyone to avoid getting gaslit by the government and corporations into complete apathy.

Perhaps if the protests continue then the probability of something happening will shift closer to 100%.

It's also practice for mass mobilization, gets us used to disobeying civil society.

It may not have an effect on public policy, but public opinion has shifted in a big way. The occupation has been going on for a very long time and until pretty recently supporting Palestine felt like a fringe position. The propaganda machine has been consistently pushing in that direction and replaying the lie that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism so much that it's official state department policies, and there are laws trying to criminalize BDS. That people are pushing back against that narrative is a big step - it shows skepticism of the media and politicians, international solidarity, and a willingness to accept being accused of shit.

But the chances of the US government doing anything to stop the genocide in the foreseeable future are basically zero. Biden is extremely Zionist, he literally once said, "If Israel did not exist, the US would have to invent an Israel to protect its interests in the region." Pretty much all of the people in government were elected in an environment where supporting Palestine was pushed to the fringe and many of them worked hard to get it there. Old people are a crucial voting bloc and they're much more likely to support Israel.

It is an effective wedge to drive in between people and the media/politicians, but it's hard to imagine things changing through the political system. Electoral politics seems like a dead end on this issue, because it's decided at a high enough level that they'll just never give people an opportunity to vote on it. Imo economic pressure such as BDS is more likely to be effective, and getting people on board with the cause means various tactics can carry more weight.

It may not really be affecting change, now, but you know what? It’s keeping the fire going, so that perhaps something will happen. Otherwise we’re sort of surrendering the people of Gaza to the dustbin of history.

And I’m a fucking loser for saying this because I haven’t yet been to a single protest (PSL organizes one almost like every week but I never check their Instashit in time) but, I think it matters, to show them that they aren’t forgotten.

Recently I’ve seen a lot more organizing around mutual aid fundraisers from Palestinians trying to evacuate their families from Gaza. I think supporting these fundraisers by donating and also setting up fundraising events for them is one way to directly help people in Gaza right now. There are also charities to support like PCRF.

Yes. You're not protesting to convince Brandon and his gang of actual vampires, you're protesting to convince onlookers. Even if it might not feel like it, the US government does depend on public opinion and while they aren't breaking yet, they're taking some heavy hits right now.

Public opinion has shifted massively against Israel and if public opinion didn't matter, the US government wouldn't bother with the insane propaganda, they wouldn't bother with their twisting of words and outright lies. Most people, even in the US, aren't psychopaths. They don't like it when babies are killed and there's only so much rationalizing and ignoring you can do when people are protesting and showing those graphic pictures around. A significant number of liberals are slowly reaching their breaking point.

The platitudes and performative expressions of "concerns" aren't for you, they're there to pacify liberals and you must not let them do that. Decades of propaganda are being undone right now. Propaganda outlets are experiencing internal turmoil because of dissenters, hell, the democrats themselves are having internal struggles over this.

How much destruction is there left that we as American activists are even trying to prevent?

Not to be rude, but do you think this ends with the destruction of Gaza? Do you think Israel "wins" once the last apartment block is bombed into rubble? No, the Palestinians are still there. Hamas is still there. Hezbollah is still there. AnsarAllah is still there. As long as the genocidal occupation exists, there will be a resistance. Israel knows full well that they're doing nothing to destroy Hamas, their destruction of mosques and universities merely serves to project the aesthetic of victory and might, nothing more. October 7th exposed just how fragile they really are and now settlers are fleeing the country by the tens of thousands. Israel is a rabid dog and their demise is inevitable at this point, they're already setting their sights onto Lebanon for crying out loud. The question is just how many innocents have to die before they finally meet their undignified end. And that is exactly the point of pro-palestinian activism. They're fully dependent on the support of people in the West to extend their genocidal rampage as long as they possibly can, and it is on us to deny them that.

Is there a point to continue fighting when you're losing? Often yes

Our activism predictably has very little effect on the decisions of our imperialist leaders.

What our activism has done is shatter the narrative that upholds peoples' allegiance to empire. Moreso than any other time in my life has an event created more communists and anarchists out of Western liberals. That isn't really going to help the people of Gaza in this moment, sure, but imperialist days are definitely numbered now.

The authorities of the Israeli-American axis know that they can act with impunity as long as protestors are not willing to escalate.

So some type of escalation beyond the civilly obedient mode needs to happen. There are multiple steps of escalation, and many of them may be necessary.

The destruction part is nonsense, as there is much to be prevented, even still a world to be gained despite the horrors inflicted. As far as agitation within the U.S., it's true most of it has not had a direct material effect, despite mass protests forcing changes in rhetoric from the U.S. (empty, of course). "This" has not "run its course" until the Palestinian people have been eradicated--until then every American owes their life to the struggle, and afterwards still to all those oppressed by Western imperialism. If community agitation has not proven effective in rousing support for mass action, this is understandable considering the scourge of opportunism; providing whatever support is possible to groups actively engaged in the struggle (ex. Hamas, PFLP, Hezbollah) is the only option. This is difficult for multiple reasons (surveillance, barriers of access), and yet, this is the nature of what has to be done.

Yes

I will admit that the protests can seem lacking, but that’s only when that’s your only source of resisting. I mean, after all most of us here have no faith in the electoral system, but those who still vote and engage in politics on a ground level are doing more than just voting. But for some reason, when it comes to protesting, people here are rather uncreative. Maybe it’s helpful to stop thinking “protest” and think “resisting an occupational force,” which means actions that are perhaps more cunning and less palatable for the average org member.

But there is a point. To make Zionists cry and become uncomfortable and to shut them up in public spaces. We SHOULD do more. But if you’re feeling pessimistic, know that psychological warfare is the other side of conflict. Israel and Zionists are not happy with just “winning” in this genocide, they must also make everyone agree with them.

The Israel lobby hobbies tens of millions into fascist organizations and youth zionist groups while the rest of us rely on our wages and free time, yet their propaganda fails to overtake the victims’ voice and their advocates.

They feel FEAR because people are against genocide. They become “traumatized” when you simply saying “no, I will not accept genocide.” So start moving the furniture inside of their heads. Inflict this imaginary trauma onto them. Zionists should feel shame and be censored at every chance they get. When you see someone with an Israeli flag, publicly denounce them.

Alternatively, inflict real trauma into them. If you’re adventurous, carry some ninja rocks and give cars with Zionist stickers a fun surprise. Organize disinformation with your most trusted colleagues from the organization. You don’t need physical violence to make them afraid. Sometimes you just need an address, privacy tools, and 911 (or your local police number).

They have the funding, the weapons, and the manpower, but they’re extremely emotionally fragile and they should live in fear whether it’s rational or not. Fuck that “I wouldn’t wish it on my worse enemy” bullshit. Wish it, then make it happen.

I say of all this, but I’m still trying to think of how any of this can be done realistically and securely. But I hope that this helps you. Also, everything I said here is for entertainment and satire and has no basis in reality. Anything that’s implemented here in the real world is a coincidence.

The problem is not that people shouldn’t fight, the problem is that the Western left has no strategy. They have no intention of taking political power, and more interested in performative resistance.

The mistake is in thinking that there is an inflection point where, if reached, the masses will have a sudden change of heart and spontaneously rise up against their oppressors and win. This is just liberal idealism.

Without a coherent strategy informed by theory that actually aims to seize political power, and without organized activism, any form of nascent revolution will either fail, or immediately crushed by counter-revolutions. History is full of failed revolutions, most never even got off the ground.

The Western left hasn’t even stepped out one foot yet. They’re still on step zero. They need to first figure out their strategy that actually enables them to leverage the power of the masses to achieve certain political goals.

I have used this example before: during the Long March, more than 90% of the communist party cadres were wiped out by the KMT. Mao was and is still revered today precisely because he was able to synthesize a path forward for Chinese socialism - through identifying the principal contradiction and thus its solution: land reform. He truly believed that land reform could unleash the revolutionary potential of the masses, which won them the ultimate victory against KMT, who suffered from mass defection when it finally came down.

The Chinese Civil War, or the War of Liberation (解放战争), was not won militarily, but ideologically. It could easily have happened the other way and the Chinese communists would have ended their revolutionary effort in failure.

This could only happen within a very specific context of the circumstances in China during that time. And every revolutionary has to figure out the principal contradictions that are specific to their contexts, in order to figure out the very specific solution to their problem.

https://odysee.com/@nakba:7/Badass-Palestinian-little-girl-sending-a-message-to-Zionists-that-shows-the-strength-of-the-Palestinian-people:0

The U.S. has backed out of similar conflicts before, most recently Afghanistan, and Ukraine funding is looking rockier by the day. It's not impossible for the U.S. to decide unconditionally supporting Israel is no longer in its interests.

The U.S. government isn't going to bow to public opinion on this, but public opinion turning against Israel gives them political cover to do it if they come to that decision on their own. Do you think Biden would have pulled out of Afghanistan if the U.S. public still had the war fever it had right after 9/11?

Protesting is unlikely to affect US foreign policy. Some things that I think are worthwhile:

• Organizing workers to directly impede the Palestinian genocide. For instance, I canvassed workers at a protest outside of a Google office, which has a big cloud computing contract with Israel. (They aren't really a high-priority target, but I'm a tech worker so I can talk to them.) If Googlers were organized, they could threaten to strike in order to force management to cancel the contract. The fundamental power of the working class comes from our direct control over production. Maybe there are liberals working at Raytheon who want to work in the "defense industry" and could be convinced that genocide is not "defense". Maybe there are dock worker's unions that could be politicized to refuse Israeli goods.
• Just straight up direct action against weapons shipments, etc.

But yeah, the clock is ticking and there may not be much Palestine left once American workers are able to really do anything. Things are bleak. It's no help to Palestine, but I will say that the mass awareness of Dems taking your vote and doing a genocide might be good for American domestic policy. There's that whole #AbandonBiden thing, which was previous the domain of third-party cranks like us.

You could always explore alternative tactical arenas.

Do you want to look back in your life and remember thst time you stopped actively opposing a genocide?

other victims of pretty comprehensive campaigns of genocide, for example native americans, are still fighting and surviving, so its probably not going to be over for palestinians anytime soon.