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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/4551711

The USA senate has 2 fasces. You cannot get more obvious than that

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[-] supafuzz@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago

the founders were romaboos

funny how romaboo thought always leads to fascism

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

What do you mean, idolizing a violent expansionist slavery empire leads to trying the same stuff as them???

[-] Red_Sunshine_Over_Florida@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I imagine that's how the planters themselves thought of it but, they thought it was a virtue. They envisioned themselves as new repubican aristocrats in the Roman model. They would live in leisurely repose while being able to pursue art, academic writing, and politics just as the Roman latifundia did in the past.

I think it could be related to the liberal revolutionaries' tendency to clothe themselves in the Republican garb of the Classical age in order to legitimize their movement. The French had a similar movement in art and architecture during the age of their revolution and into the Napoleonic era as well.

[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago

The Roman Empire was an ideal society to model ourselves after

what about all the slavery and depravity tho?

That is a feature, not a bug

[-] huf@hexbear.net 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

also, roman republic tearing itself apart repeatedly because the elites simply refused to give any concessions to the poor.

no, no lesson here.

(not that the republic was good...)

[-] SSJ2Marx@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago

Like a dozen times in Roman history, some Consul is hailed as the greatest leader of all time because he breaks up the big slave owning plantations and redistributes the land to the poor (that is, the poor citizenry, not the slaves or immigrants). None of them could figure out how to stop the big plantations from inevitably buying up and outcompeting the smallholders, though.

[-] EllenKelly@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

Oh yay, I love depravity

[-] HarryLime@hexbear.net 24 points 1 week ago

This is kind of dumb tbh

They were there before Fascism existed

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 20 points 1 week ago

A little dumb, a little "and here we see how the ideological seeds that underpin colonialism eventually mature into fascism"

[-] HarryLime@hexbear.net 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Not really at all. TBH, the fasces as a symbol is downright contrary to American ideology. It's a symbol of collective strength through societal unity, but America is so embroiled in its cult of individualism that the idea of achieving a collective good through collective power is practically alien. (Of course then again, Italians never really lived up to the purported ideals of fascism either, so maybe it's not so out of place.)

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

American ideology is contradictory as hell haha

There's definitely the "I do what I want" aspect of it, but there's also tons of blind patriotism and willingness to sacrifice for the country (to say nothing of the half-mythical idea that the colonies were these fully independent sovereigns that chose to join together). I do think the former has been gaining serious ground since at least the 70s.

[-] rio@hexbear.net 5 points 1 week ago

It’s a symbol of the estruscan kings and Roman magistrates right to order public floggings with sticks or beheadings with axes

[-] HarryLime@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

My bad, I'd learned that it was a symbol of unity, like the people being stronger unified like the tied sticks.

[-] ProgAimerGirl@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

okay but they stayed there even after fascism adopted the imagery. the empire is at the very least unconcerned with the implication of hanging ornamental golden fasces in the halls of power

[-] HarryLime@hexbear.net 16 points 1 week ago

So what's the logic here? That they kept it up there to fuck with your head, as a semi-secret sign that they're fascist? That's anti-materialist thinking, little different than anti-Masonists seeing the eye pyramid on a dollar bill and imagining a vast conspiracy from it.

Let's say that there was a proposal to take the fasces down- what would the case be? That Mussolini's use of the fasces imbues it with a transcendental evil that reaches back in time and taints it as a symbol before he even used it? From the perspective of the political class, the whole debate would likely be tiresome and not worth having.

If the US is or becomes fascist, it's going to have very little to do with some old ornaments in the House of Representatives, it's going to be because of material conditions.

[-] Saeculum@hexbear.net 12 points 1 week ago

Not really sure if the best response to fascists using a common and ancient symbol is to rip out our artistic and cultural heritage.

There are buildings with Swastikas and Fasces all over Europe and the US that considerably pre-date the Nazis.

It's not like removing statues of slavers and criminals (which is based), since these older buildings and artworks aren't and weren't glorifying the horrendous crimes they later came to be associated with.

[-] Red_Sunshine_Over_Florida@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don't mean to come off as pedantic by saying this but, that's actually the House chamber.

[-] RION@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

me looking at the coat of arms of cuba no-choice

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 7 points 1 week ago

god fucking damn it ya beat me to it

[-] EllenKelly@hexbear.net 10 points 1 week ago

| Adopted | 24 April 1906 |

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago

the fasces in the chamber of the house of representatives are from 1857

[-] SSJ2Marx@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

To be fair, I think the US' use of fasces predates fascism by a couple hundred years. A bunch of the founders were ancient Rome statue avatar dorks.

[-] HexBroke@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

ancient Rome statue avatar dorks

Reminds you of anyone?

The Volkshalle ("People's Hall"), also called Große Halle ("Great Hall") or Ruhmeshalle ("Hall of Glory"), was a proposal for a monumental, domed building to be built in a reconstituted Berlin (renamed as Germania) in Nazi Germany. The project was conceived by Adolf Hitler and designed by his architect Albert Speer.

[-] rio@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago

Actually it’s an ancient Slavic symbol

[-] Roonerino@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

Gee United States! How come your mom lets you have two fasces?

this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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